Partnering with board members to build relationships with our prospects leads to larger gifts from more loyal major donors.
Partnering with board members to build relationships with our prospects leads to larger gifts from more loyal major donors. Join us for a conversation and Q&A with a seasoned fundraiser and an experienced board member. We will discuss why engaging your board in fundraising activities should be central to your strategy, how to overcome obstacles, and give directions for how to carry out this work.
Transcript
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[Music] good morning everybody um can y’all hear
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me okay great um good morning and uh welcome to the June session of the
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philanthropy Club of Illinois um please feel free to use the chat to introduce yourselves um and if your organization
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has any career opportunities or upcoming events uh please share them in the chat
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my name is Lisa valani Gil U my pronouns are she her and and I’m the director of major and plan giving at Chicago public
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media um I also serve as a volunteer moderator for the philanthropy Club of
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Illinois the philanthropy Club was founded over 20 years ago uh by Gus Wii
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the co-founder of the safer Foundation the club is 100% volunteer-driven and
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our singular goal is to level the playing field for all Illinois nonprofits when it comes to access to
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funding to support the mission of their organizations and the communities that they serve we fulfill our goal by
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providing noost monthly programming to to support nonprofits with access to funders and by offering technical skill
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building to effective fundraising the philanthropy Club of Club of Illinois is is sponsored by
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Forefront you can visit my Forefront do.org to learn more about their services for Illinois based nonprofits
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our Forefront staff partner is key Montgomery who is currently behind the scenes ensuring that we have a seamless
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time this time of learning this morning uh thank you so much ke for all that you do
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um so this this morning we are going to focus on how to tap into your board’s fundraising power uh we have with us
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today Lucy Kim the chief advancement officer at Chicago public media uh Lucy
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previously served as the vice president of development at the Brookings institution and the deputy Vice dean of development at Harvard’s th Chan School
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of Public Health our other speaker is Chuck Lewis the chair of the Lewis Sebring Foundation Chuck um is retired
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from his career as the former Vice chair of investment banking at Mara Lynch and serves as a board member and chair of
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the development committee at Chicago public media Lucy and cheu partnered close together to advance major donor
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strategies at Chicago public media and I’m going to ask each of them some questions about how they approach this
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partnership and this work and there will be plenty of time for your questions as well so please have them
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ready um so Chuck and Lucy could you each um please introduce yourselves and
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share a bit more about your background Lucy let’s start with you sure good morning everyone can you hear me
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okay great um it’s it’s a real pleasure and honor to speak to a group of fellow
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colleagues who are in the trenches every day doing really important work for our
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organizations and our communities um as Lisa mentioned I’ve had a career in
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higher ed in public policy and think tanks and now in public media and you
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know and I think people don’t really grow up thinking I’m going to be a fundraiser or a director of
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development but it is a wonderful career a career of service and a career that
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really for me allows me to learn so much about the organizations and the fields
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um that those organizations are in um so my background is I’m a I’m I’m a child
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of immigrants uh my family imig ated to the US from South Korea when I was six
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years old we landed in a Small Town torington Connecticut and that’s where I grew up
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um I went to the public schools there had a wonderful education I studied voice um I wanted to be an opera singer
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in college and in grad school and as uh musicians and creatives
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often realize when they get out of school and into the real world it’s a pretty hard business and and um I took a
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series of other turns in my career and um landed in philanthropy and um I’ll
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tell you a short story if I may um I was the administrative director of a art
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Arts nonprofit called the Tanglewood Institute and the mission was to train
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the best high school-aged classical musicians from across the country and bring them to a Summer music program run
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by the Boston Symphony Orchestra called Tanglewood and because it’s a small
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nonprofit I wore many hats including Admissions and um also that’s where I
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cut my teeth on working with a board um and this is actually quite aopo because
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um the way I got into fundraising was a um how are you oh Denise it looks like
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oh there she goes um and so what happened was we were doing a a national
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tour um to audition students from across the country and there was one his name
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is Michael and he was living in Montgomery Alabama and we were we were
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auditioning there because we had a board member there and I remember he had the
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most incredible tenor voice I had ever heard just Raw Talent from top to bottom
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that just took my breath away and I knew that I wanted to bring him to the program so a few weeks later I’m sitting
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in my office in Boston and I look at his application and
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his mom is single mom three kids working two jobs making $7,000 a
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year and it costs it cost at the time $6,000 to come to our eight-week summer
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program so that math doesn’t work and without thinking without any forethought
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I picked up the phone and I called a board member and I said Charlie I need your
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help and so I described he’s like well what do you want me to do and I described who Michael was and I said
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well and in my very Artful way my first solicitation I said um well can’t you
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just write a check or something and this was based on my
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having been to his home no that he’s a successful lawyer in town and I just
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assumed that he could just write a check and solve the problem and he there was
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just absolute silence on the other line and I started to panic and I started
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to talk incessantly and we all know as fundraisers you make the ask and you
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just zip it right I didn’t know that um and eventually he said well just he said
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take a breath and tell me about the kid and so we talked for about five more minutes and he said well I’m going to
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have to think about this and then I was we got off the phone I was terrified I
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called my boss because I was sure that I was going to lose my job and a week
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later there was a FedEx envelope on my desk and it was a $110,000 check from
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Charlie and he said I’m giving you more than it cost because I want to make sure
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that the kid can get get on a plan plane and fly up to Massachusetts and back I
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want to make sure that he has money in his pocket to go have lunch
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and dinner and ice cream with the kids and not feel like he’s on he’s on the
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outside and so that was such a lifechanging story for me it put a lot
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of pieces together for me in my own life as a workingclass immigrant child
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um I needed scholarships to go to college and to graduate school and I
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never really stopped to think that there were people human beings generous people
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behind that money and the more and more I told my story people said well you know you
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could actually do this for a living it’s called development it’s called fundraising and and so that really led
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into this very rewarding uh 20-year career in fundraising so I’ll stop there
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um I’ve taken up a lot of air time so far but um I want to hand it over to Chuck who has um an incredible story of
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of um service in philanthropy thanks Lucy I’ve heard that
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story before yeah it’s a great story
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um so who am I um uh I went to ammer college um have an
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MBA from Wharton I spent 35 years in investment banking at maril
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Lynch uh and critical to this conversation I was um later on I we started using this
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term but but I was a I had a fancy title but I was a relationship
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manager uh which means in investment banking at least real Investment Banking
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the old the old days um you’re the middle person between the
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corporate client and the firm so you’re trying to represent the corporate client
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to the firm and vice versa um and I you know a lot of the
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typical clients like McDonald’s Etc but most of my practice revolved
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around uh uh younger companies like Federal Express and black cluster and um
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uh uh Blackberry last ones um and
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um uh I’ve serve or have served on a number of boards um
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including ammer where I’m a life trustee uh University of Chicago Chicago Symphony Orchestra and
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Chicago public media to name to name a few um i c shared a $270 million
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campaign at ammer um I helped to raise over $100
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million uh for the urban Education Institute at U Chicago um and I said ear was mentioned
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earlier I’m chair of the development committee at CPM working closely with Lucy and
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Lisa um my my orientation to fundraising
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and I I talk about it a lot uh in various settings like this um my
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orientation is to Major donors or the what I call the wh wholesale side of the
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business uh not small donors or the re retail side of the business so much more
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what is you know literally development work uh not uh
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membership drives or annual funds that’s a little bit of background me
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thank you both for sharing um so let’s dive into the good stuff um Chuck you’ve
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been involved in fundraising for nonprofits for um for many decades as you shared so why is engaging trustees
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in fundraising critical to the success of a development program why is it so
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difficult to engage trustees in this process and why are so few
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trustees um genuinely interested in doing this
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work um yes it’s app propo that uh yeah been
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many decades uh um I just got back from my 60th uh reunion at ammer which
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is tells you something um and I’m a life T trustee there as I think I mentioned
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and been on the board for 35 years um
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and um you I uh I
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have kind of different views on this than many people uh I think every Board
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needs a uh a truste or a director to lead the
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fundraising um U activity and partnership with the chief advancement
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officer and um and his or her team uh and development committees are
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are required for good governance but um
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my experience very few trustees or directors are interested in or capable
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of helping the CAO and his or her
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staff the uh the reason for that is uh you know accomplished people who
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are on Boards of directors are used to being uh on top in a
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relationship there used to be in charge uh and in my view uh fundraisers
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need to be willing to be on the bottom uh in a relationship it’s a
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little bit like investment bankers I’ve seen investment bankers get in trouble when they uh uh when
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they’re interacting with a corporate client and they’re making more money than the Chief
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Financial Officer and they think they’re a bigger deal and they forget the fact
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that the corporate client’s on top in that relationship and you’re on the
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bottom in servicing client um so I think
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uh uh yeah it’s it’s all about um
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relationships major fund reasing um uh
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trustees or or directors of of various
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institutions U you know bring relationships to the development uh
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effort um they can bring status they can bring
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validation um um what uh there’s one thing that has
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stuck in my mind mind I’ll steal steal Lucy slender here perhaps uh she uh
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introduced me a few months ago to the concept of of a fundraiser needing to be
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a curious chameleon which is a curious commun
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which is a perfect term uh need to be curious to begin with
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meaning when they’re talking with a a client with a prospect or
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donor they need to be interested in the donor uh they need to be asking
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questions they don’t need to they shouldn’t be launching into some Pitch I hate the word by the way but they
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shouldn’t be La launching into some speech about the the
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organization but they should be finding out about the person they’re trying to
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further the relationship uh at the same time and and
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and as I mentioned earlier I think very few people are um situated to do this
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work um I’m uh repeatedly struck by the fact
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I’ll encounter people in all sorts of settings like take my reunion I just
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went to um uh very few people ask you a
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lot about you they’re going to tell you about themselves but they they’re not they
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don’t display a curiosity about you so that’s the Curious part the
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chameleon part is um that you need
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to uh I think anybody building relationships or maintaining them need
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to you know need to try to get on the same page
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as the other person that’s the cleant part you you you um you’re trying to to
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get on their wavelength um the the holy grail for me
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in the investment banking business was when I’d have a a deep enough
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relationship with a a c CEO or a CFO company or
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Treasurer U and they would say later on the relationship well I’ve never ever
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never told anybody else this but and they would open up to
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me um and that’s the chameleon part of getting on the same wavelength with them
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go stop there thank you Chuck um Lucy we’ll go
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back to you so can you tell us what your experience has been like partnering with board and committee members on Prospect
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work and give an example of how a volunteer has played an important role in closing a
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gift we are happy to and you know I want to build on Chuck’s point because I
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think it’s so important the the Curious chameleon um I think it’s that and Chuck
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also mentioned the word or the term relationship manager and I think that’s
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why we do our work because there’s there is a transactional side of fundraising
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and that’s really important right if you think about how we really need to divers ify our revenue streams within
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fundraising you’ve got the annual fund or here we at at um Chicago public media
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we have members 80,000 members who are giving us small gifts um but in major
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gifts and principal giving really the giving is predicated on relationships and
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trust and so I really try to get to know
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our members on a one-on-one level I would say that I probably spent the first
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three months of my job scheduling one-on ones with every single board member and
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really to get to know them as humans and and understand as I think we all try to
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do which is what makes them tick and then I’m
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also have have my hat my scouting hat on
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because I’m scouting for talent I’m scouting to understand is this person a great
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networker you know is this the type of person and you know we all know the the cues and clues to look for right if
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they’re telling you they went to dinner at the economics Club one night and they’re on this other board and they
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went to a board meeting last week and and you kind of get the sense of you know they they like to be engaged they
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like to be involved they probably have a big Network I think those are really important things to know um other people
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are less out on the front you know less less visible that
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way um but are more you know could be really fantastic worker bees for
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you um you know maybe they don’t want to be uh out on the Forefront but they’re
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willing to write emails they’re willing to do other things and I think really
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trying to figure out about um what that do that mapping of talent within your
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board and I’m also very direct about asking questions and and saying that
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development is a team sport um and you know none of us raises a gift on our own
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it’s our work is very interdependent and would you be willing to help us and that you know people I
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think respond to that kind of directness well and and some will run for the hills
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and say no I don’t want to do this this is not my cup of tea and you then you
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know right you know that um you know they might be a great board member in other respects but fundraising is not
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for them um and then others you find out that you know they they love making the
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ask others are more interested in just making introductions and then stepping
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away other people want to thank donors you know they really get a lot of satisfaction out of out of expressing
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gratitude um but they don’t want to make the ask um so you know I think really
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trying to figure out where each board member stands on this topic and in this work is
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really important for all of us and I I call development work with board members
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a coalition of the Willing you know you never want to ask someone to do something if they don’t feel that
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they’re equipped to do it or they’re uncomfortable doing it um now having
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said that you know I’ve worked with board members who’ve said well I’ve never done this before but I want to
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help um and and I feel like those you know those folks are wonderful because
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you can really enter into a coaching relationship with them and and then they
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feel really good about their own aptitude as they get
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better and better um in the work and in the meantime you’re really building again your relationship and your trust
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with them um in terms of an example there was one organization that I worked
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at where I came in and the president um told me very clearly you know I’m not a
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fundraiser um I haven’t done fundraising before and and he said you’re going to have to teach me and you know and what I
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did was I I scoured the data uh I looked at our all of our um reporting on our
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top donors historically and I W you know every time we met every week I would
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spend probably about 30 minutes saying okay today we’re going to walk through
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these three donors who they are and what I understand about why they support us
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and who they’re connected to so early on probably in the first two months I there
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was a name who is a major major national philanthropist sitting on our board made
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had made a $2 million uh gift in the previous campaign but had the capacity
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to do a lot more and so I started asking questions about you know because the Pres the president of the organization
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had preceded Me by about two years so he’d been there for about two years and
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I I I said you know what’s your relationship like with him and he’s like well you know when I got here your
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predecessor told me that you know he the donor told him he’s not doing anything
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beyond the two million and so you know they told me that you know like I you obviously I’m gonna say hi to him and
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and talk to him at board meetings but I really shouldn’t waste my time and and I
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said you know I have a a different point of view um first of all two million isn’t just chump
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change um and secondly this is a person who is used
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to having an audience with the leaders of every organization that he’s
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associated with and we need to pay him the respect of giving him that time and
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giving him that access to you and so the next time he flew in for a board meeting
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I had arranged for the president and the stoner just the two of them to have
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dinner together and my president was nervous he he he said I don’t know I I
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don’t know that we have anything in common and and I said listen you’re a great conversationalist um talk about
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your background but ask him questions you know getting back to Chuck’s notion of curiosity ask him questions ask him
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about his life he’s led a fascinating life well he texts me that night at
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11:00 they had been at dinner from 6: p.m. till 10:30
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together hit it off had a wonderful time and then the donor invited him to
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go fly fishing with him um down in Bermuda um and that was the start of a
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really beautiful friendship and then a year and a half
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later there was an opportunity in the organization to fund something new that
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we know this donor had a passion for and so I talked to my president and
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he said yes I think we should go for it we should and we should put a big number out there um to name this Center um and
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it was $15 million and so I asked him I said you know who do we know who knows this donor
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within our Network and so we were mapping relationships and we figured out that he had close relationships with two
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of our board members including our board chair very close personal relationship
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and he also had a very close relationship with one of the faculty members um for the research center and
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so I called a meeting and we got ourselves in a room and we talked
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about putting this ask in front of the donor we asked we I asked a lot of
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questions about how people know this person are we making the right ask what
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is you know how does this donor like to be approached and then we came up with a
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sequencing of who’s going to test the waters with him
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first um then I and my team would be ready with a proposal that we would put
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in front of him who was going to follow up with him um and then who should be um making
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the the formal ask in front of him and so we teed this up that our board chair
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was going to soften the ground and test the waters with him first and ask if he
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if he would be willing to review a proposal and then we decided that um our
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President should make the formal ask um face to face and that then the um the
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faculty member would be with our president so they could really get into the weeds and he could ask a lot of
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questions and we’d have our ducks in a row in that regard then the board chair
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would follow up again after that call and then from there so that was our our
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kind of one two three you know moves one two and three four um and then we would
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see we would regroup and figure out where we were and and it you know and it worked
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it took time because he’s a very busy person so it ended up taking about you know a month and a half to get all of
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these conversations set up um but it worked and what we did was we made sure
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you know I was kind of at the I was the invisible hand as fundraisers often are
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um and you know following up with each person having the conversation getting that Intel then back to the rest of the
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group that would then shape the next conversation and so on and so forth so
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that’s an example of you know again Coalition of the willing and figuring out the right right people uh to bring
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into a solicitation um that’s a great story
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Lucy thank you um all right Chuck we’re gonna go back to you um can you talk a more about
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your um General Philosophy for your role as a partner to the development
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staff yeah I thought yeah that is a a perfect Story Lucy um the
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um I I do some SS like this uh for one
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of my uh former uh professional development
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Partners uh he teaches a class to Mid career professionals and uh and I always
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make the point and a lot of the conversations about getting trustees or
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directors involved in in fundraising and uh develop and development work and I
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always uh am pretty um um blunt about the fact that very few
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people are are made for doing this uh they may do as Lucy said may do other
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behind the scenes kinds of things but but actually participate in what Lucy
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just described there are very few people who are um either capable or
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willing uh Lucy’s story also points out that
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you’re talking about you know real development work you know Big Ticket development work that
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um uh it takes time it takes uh looking
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for other resources like the other people involved um it’s very
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handmade and uh so all those points are are very well taken my
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um my general philosophy as as in my role as a partner to staff
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um my two most memorable roles uh uh have been in ammeron new
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Chicago um and um I had one Frontline
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fundrais raising partner in each of them um the uh John pistol at ammer and Tom
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Wick at you Chicago so you may know Tom Wick who who’s now at
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rush um they were the professionals who drove
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the process I relied upon them to um you know take Tak the initiative
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keep pushing things keep me organized remind me what I needed to do
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things uh just making the trains run on time and U um and I brought to to the
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situation I brought knowledge of how to do relationships uh I I brought some of
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my relationships to the uh part the um um you having um you peer-to peer
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helps a lot um and
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um so I have the I have the uh and I don’t know if you know Tom
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anybody but um you know he is not a uh kind
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of you know predictable you know from Central Casting
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fundraiser um you know he’s not you know big personalities uh uh he’s not what
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what most people would expect but he’s fabulous because he uh
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he was a linan in college and he uh he’s just really great at the blocking and
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tackling so he and I had very different personalities um but but uh but we
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complimented each other and he kept kept the U continuity of the of a
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particular situation going he he uh was on top of the information about the
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organization uh he just kind of you know helped to kind of manage
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me uh the kind of relationship manage me um and I so I look for when I’m looking
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when I’m working with um and I I I think of the Frontline
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fundraisers like at Chicago P media I think of them as relationship
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managers they’re the relationship managers and and we’re there to to help
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uh enhance those relationships so those are some of the
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ideas thank you um so Lucy uh you told us a great story about a willing
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participant um who just needed a little coaching and encouragement but I think
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everyone on this call knows that you don’t always get a willing participant sometimes uh folks are a little more
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hesitant and um sometimes the person you really need um to help is more hesitant
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um so can you tell us about a time when a board member was hesitant to solicit one of their contacts and um what
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happened and how did you overcome it or so yes I faced a lot of folks who
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really are uncomfortable making the ask and but if there so I would say that if
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they’re really uncomfortable then it’s you know I try to ask questions without pushing about
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whether they would want to be involved in some way but not making the ask or if they just would like to step
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away alt together and I think that’s you know the those are when we hear no right
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I for fundraisers right it’s um no is hardly ever a no it’s maybe not exactly
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the way you presented it maybe it’s not yet or not now so I think asking some of
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those questions to understand you know where the speed bumps are is helpful so
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there was one board member that I worked with where she did have the closest relationship she was the most
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influential um it the relationship with with a donor was born out of a yearslong
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friendship and I think that can some sometimes be complicated for folks right they don’t want to mix business with
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pleasure they feel that they don’t want to put their friend in an uncomfortable
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position and so then for me it’s you know for me it was about let’s get back
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to why we want to approach this person so it’s then not about their
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relationship but it’s about why we’re making the ask in the first place and I
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think when we discussed it in that way it was the board partner who said oh
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yeah she loves this organization she’s devoted to the
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cause and so really starting from there to say you know let’s even let’s just
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put aside who’s going to make the ask but you know how would you guide me in
36:50
like how do you think we could make this person most comfortable um in in receiving an ask
36:58
and and really see that person as as a resource um and and and to try to learn
37:07
um how to proceed in the solicitation um and then really save the
37:15
who’s gonna who’s going to actually say the words to the end and say you know
37:21
okay now now that we’ve really gone through this step by step I I have a better sense from you and how you think
37:28
we should approach this what we should say who should say it is the next thing
37:33
that we need to figure out and so with this person she said you know I think I
37:40
wouldn’t mind being in the room and for us to for me to be helpful in reminding
37:47
her why this organization is important to her why it’s why it’s a shared
37:52
passion of ours how it strengthened our relationship um she said but I’m not
37:58
going to say the number and so I said do you think you’d be okay if I were in the
38:04
room with you and I said the number and ultimately she was fine with
38:12
that configuration but you know it took a couple of conversations for us to get
38:17
there um you know there have been other situations where the person has just
38:23
absolutely drawn a red line and said no way like I don’t want to be a part of it I don’t
38:28
want I don’t want to make the ask um and
38:33
and there I think also you just try to say well could you like would you mind just
38:39
completely on the down low for us to have a conversation because I’d love to get your advice and and that’s gold too
38:48
right because they have special insights that we may not have as fundraisers and
38:54
to learn as much as you can with someone who’s got a close relationship and then you and then I think you also engage
39:00
them to say okay totally understand you don’t want to make the ask who do you think we
39:07
should go to you know who do you think would be the mo most persuasive spokesperson um Ambassador for the
39:14
organization and you know in those instances right then you’re really brainstorming with them and then they
39:20
feel good about having helped because you know my sense is with
39:26
um board members like no one wants to feel that they just shut you down and
39:32
said no and I think it’s part of our job if when people do say no to say well can
39:38
we can you help me in another way um and that’s that’s part of again the the
39:44
relationship building and the trust building there yeah let me let me add some things
39:50
to that if I could the uh yeah
39:55
um in my Investment Banking life um I seldom asked for an
40:03
order people think investment bankers are these kind of Wheeler Dealer aggressive guys or
40:12
gals and and uh uh but my what I would do is I would uh um
40:21
really get close to a large number of people at certain companies uh um and I
40:29
would um get to know the company and the people so well that their needs would
40:36
become apparent and then if if we’re talking about their needs then you know and I’ve
40:44
got um you know I’ve developed these deep relationships with these people
40:50
it’s just kind of natural that we would would do the deal um and I I look at
41:00
it for for uh institutions I I think that’s also the
41:08
the ideal that um you know there’s the old saw little little hyperbolic but you
41:16
know your your uh your best Prospect is your most recent
41:21
donor you you another another one is that um say in the in the higher ed
41:29
World um you know the the uh the maximum gift they give is probably 25 years
41:37
after their first gift uh for all sorts of reasons so it’s
41:43
the idea that that you you actually have a relationship which keeps on
41:48
giv um and um and that’s very much the way I I approach things um and um uh and
42:00
and I think you
42:05
um the the the development
42:10
activity um needs to be you know trying to
42:17
raise uh you know truly major gifts uh so that you can actually spend
42:23
time uh on developing ongoing relationships with people um that if the
42:30
gifts too small the returns too low and so you can’t spend all this time um uh
42:37
developing the relationships and maintaining the relationships and then and then uh seeking to uh to uh you know
42:46
get the the donor to continue to to um increase their
42:53
gifts um the uh
42:58
so the and and as Lucy is saying I think these things are very
43:04
handmade each Situation’s different uh and uh they’re not
43:11
formula U and um I think that’s a key part of this this whole
43:19
process thank you um all right everybody I’m GNA ask Chuck and Lucy one more
43:25
question that they’ll both answer and and then we are going to allot the rest of the time for Q&A so um you can start
43:32
asking posting your questions in the chat or um you can uh get your question ready and raise your hand um during the
43:39
Q&A so our last question my last question for you is
43:45
um there are something that I personally experience with this board partner work
43:51
is that it can be monotonous it takes a really long time um and uh so it’s easy
43:58
to kind of get lost in the details can you share some practical tips and strategies or even dos and don’ts that
44:05
help to systematize board partner work and keep it on track um Lucy let’s start with
44:10
you sure I think the most important thing to remember is that board members
44:17
are volunteering their time and it’s our job as staff to make it as easy of a
44:24
lift as possible and so at Chicago public media when I first arrived we did not have an
44:30
infrastructure um for supporting our board partners and so what I did was
44:37
assigned one person to really be the central depository or the The Hub if you will
44:44
the Nerf center of the work working with me working with our relationship
44:50
managers our fundraisers and then also communicating
44:55
to our board partners and it’s really important to
45:00
have one person manage the communications manage the flow track the
45:07
work right because you want your fundraisers to be external as much as
45:12
possible um and so you don’t want them to get bogged down and you know writing emails
45:20
or or or tracking the work themselves um so I think if you have the band with on
45:27
your team to assign one owner to really own that work to provide that service to
45:35
your board Partners that’s really important and and that’s everything from you know the
45:40
things that we don’t even think about right which is like putting lists together of names and doing list reviews
45:48
um then putting all of that into some kind of central tracker that we can all
45:53
look at make making sure that we’re logging every move that we have agreed on with the
45:59
board partner now Central to this also is making sure that the board partner
46:05
has a relationship with the board um with the with the fundraiser and that’s
46:11
something that Chuck has really modeled for us which is you know Chuck doesn’t want to go through layers
46:18
right Chuck wants to talk to the relationship manager directly because that person is the most knowledgeable
46:25
about the donor or the Prospect and so he’ll just pick up the phone and call them and that’s been great for our
46:31
fundraisers to be able to talk to the board member who’s working on you know working together with them directly so I
46:39
think it’s it’s a really win-win um but I I think organizing professionalizing
46:44
the work within our shops is is really important um Chuck U anything else you’d
46:52
like to throw in there you’ll hear you’ll hear familiar themes uh I think
46:58
the for me doing this work starts with with two
47:04
categories of information one is what I call the list capital T capital
47:12
L and the other is the story capital T capital
47:18
S so the list starts with um who are your existing
47:25
donors uh uh understanding them best not always
47:32
looking for Fresh Faces but taking care of the people you already have uh
47:38
deepening those relationships trying to move them up in size um I am I’m uh
47:47
extraordinarily this goes this goes back to I’m extraordinarily contacts
47:53
oriented uh on your on my phone uh and I think I’ve got 5,000 contacts on my
48:00
phone so every time I talk to somebody uh regardless of whether it’s a
48:07
a fundraising situation and I learned something about them I jot notes down on
48:14
my phone so some of my contacts will be some of the entries in the contacts
48:20
will be three four five pages long uh and I do that because I’m I’m
48:28
curious another word for it and this really applies to me is I’m
48:34
nosy really really want to know about people it’s I find it interesting but
48:40
it’s also very useful um and so so the whole idea
48:45
developing a list and uh and then populating it and deepening it and any
48:53
anytime somebody around the organization uh including the front line fund the RM
49:01
the Frontline fundraiser or the trustee or whatever uh
49:07
learn something you put it in the files U and so that’s that’s a key part
49:14
of it and it’s a it’s a mentality it’s a it’s a relationship mentality I do it because find it interesting but it’s all
49:22
also you know knowing facts about people permit you
49:28
to recall things that you’ve done together or things you have in
49:34
common um all all manner of things that deepen
49:40
relationships the the story part is um critical and a lot of
49:50
people I kind of I kind of hate case statements case statements in in
49:58
campaigns you know glossy and necessary I guess and kind of things to leave
50:04
behind but what you really need to do um in working you
50:11
know lay people like myself needing to work with the professionals is to get to
50:18
the essence of what what the organization’s all about
50:23
um um and um why is why is what what are
50:28
the reasons to support this organization um one key phrase I’ve long used I think
50:37
I picked this up from some academic work years ago uh that major donors give to
50:46
organizations they’re proud proud to be associated with whole notion of pride of
50:52
Association and part of the part of the job of RM and their board Partners um is
51:01
to remind people why they should be proud of the
51:06
place um and I when I when I talk about that key concept of pride of
51:13
Association uh I always quickly uh talk about Lucy’s former employer
51:20
Harvard and people say why can Harvard continue to raise gobs of money
51:26
when they have such a giant endowment pretty clear to me because
51:33
people like being assciated with Harvard Universe U so that that whole mentality
51:40
I think is is really key so the two things the list in the story are are
51:46
very important in this work I was waiting for you to bring up the list in the story Chuck um I think
51:53
that’s a great illustration though um and such an important reminder for us
51:59
fundraisers thank you all right so we have one um our first question is from
52:04
Eric and it has eight thumbs up in the chat which means a lot of people are into this question so we’ll start with
52:10
here with this um Eric says both Miss Kim and M Mr Lewis have shared some
52:16
great examples from their experience in the development world I would love to hear their thoughts on building a
52:21
culture of philanthropy with a board that is not a fundraising board avoids fundraising and it’s very program
52:29
focused who wants to start do you want to go
52:35
first yeah I think um it’s like I said at the top
52:41
um that very few people in all walks of
52:48
life uh are at all interested in fundraising or capable of doing it uh so
52:56
just so so like Lucy said at one point um you’re you’re searching for
53:02
talent um and um and you know you’re
53:07
look you’re looking for for people who have who would fit the curist chameleon
53:15
category U and very few people do um so first point is don’t expect a
53:23
lot of board members to get it or want to involved just that’s just the facts
53:29
there’ll be a very small minority and look for that small minority and involve that um
53:36
[Music] the um not
53:44
sure not sure about the how to think about a fun fundraising
53:49
culture um um I I think if
54:00
I think that that I for one object to um composing a
54:08
board uh of people who who are primarily Big
54:14
Ds uh I find those boards boring and uh and they’re not they don’t
54:20
really attract people to those boards so give you example so the the the ammer
54:26
College Board is in my view an ideal board um was for years 21 people uh
54:35
including the president now we’ve increased it to 25 people including the president and uh and it’s a very strong
54:44
culture uh uh uh virtually all the members are
54:50
alumni um and but the board is board s is very
54:57
carefully composed so it’s not just a bunch of wealth rich people you we I
55:03
always say we we every cycle we we have the requisite
55:09
billionaire um and we’ve got a bunch of other people with Deep Pockets but um
55:15
you know then we have you know academics and and people involved in politics and
55:22
all sorts of authors and people who are interesting they bring a real real
55:31
uh depth to the board and and and therefore people
55:37
clamor to be on this board U and they’re and they’re and very high standards so very heavily engaged
55:47
so it’s not what I call a driveby board it’s a Hands-On board to the point to
55:53
make the point um that amers uh all board members have to be at every
55:59
meeting and if you miss a meeting you need a note from your
56:05
mother and I think that’s that’s the idea I serve on a lot of boards
56:11
where one board I served on for 10 years a high flutin board um um 55 members a
56:22
very wealth driven board and in that 10 years there were handful of Board of
56:28
Trustees I never saw that’s the that’s the driveby
56:34
board so I’ll stop I think this is such an interesting
56:40
topic and I’ve served um with organizations that had
56:47
many different board configurations um and I agree with you Chuck I think um a board composed purely
56:57
of very high-end donors is not a you know necessarily a very interesting
57:02
board and you do want variety I but I think what’s really important is for the
57:08
the CEO of the organization and the executive leadership team to really
57:13
figure out what is your purpose for your board is it does it have fiduciary
57:20
responsibility is it more of an Advisory Board now we all know as fundraiser is
57:26
that Bo engagement is one of the really
57:31
important Pathways and one of the most important tools we have as fundraisers to raise the folks who have
57:39
the the really high capacity to give to raise their sites right and to get them invested have some skin in the game in
57:46
your organization so I think figuring out and we’ve done a lot of this work with our governance Committee of our Board of
57:54
what is the Right Mix I think that’s really important to know
57:59
from an organizational perspective what you need from your board and then you might decide you know we need more
58:07
fundraising Firepower whether it’s board Partners who can work with the board um
58:13
and then you think about well then do you create a development committee like the the committee that Chuck is is is
58:20
heading for us um and even you know Chuck and I have been having conversations about how do we kind of
58:26
loosen the structures of a development committee and bring in more people from across the board who are willing to do
58:32
this work with us but maybe sitting on other committees that prevents them from being on the development committee we
58:38
would you know because that’s a kind of a silly barrier to say well you serve on this board or this committee you can’t
58:44
serve on our committee so you can’t do development work you know that’s that that helps no one um so you know we’re
58:51
talking about how do we how do we think about this in a more liberal way
58:56
um to again broaden that Coalition of the Willing um so I think you know
59:01
understanding the purpose and if funraising if raising money um and
59:07
having those deep pocketed donors is important for your board to figure out how do you make that work within your
59:14
current structure um you know do you have a development committee or some
59:19
places just have different donor groups that you can form
59:26
that’s outside of the board but it’s you know it’s elevated for example at Chicago public media we created a
59:32
business Leadership Council and that was very philanthropically driven um it
59:37
really served two purposes one is we wanted more visibility among corporate
59:43
and Civic leaders across Chicago about who we are and what we do and why we’re important and we also saw that this was
59:52
a huge philanthropic opportunity because these leaders tend to be be generous and tend to have capacity to give so we
59:59
created a separate Pathway to get involved with us that’s not necessarily being on the board so I would say also
1:00:06
you know look outside your board too to engage to really enlarge your tent of
1:00:12
supporters number one number two in terms of building a culture of philanthropy the one common denominator
1:00:19
for me is that I think every single board member should be making a philanthropic gift within their
1:00:27
capacity right and so someone may be able to make a million dollar gift and
1:00:33
someone their capacity May dictate that they can make a$ thousand gift and that’s okay but I
1:00:42
think for us as fundraisers to have one-on-one conversations with each board member to
1:00:49
say you know fanthropy is so important for us as a nonprofit about to support what we do
1:00:56
you know could you see yourself making a gift if they’re not already or if you
1:01:02
understand what their capacity is and they’re not giving to their capacity to say you know we would be honored to earn
1:01:09
your uh earn earn your support at a higher level you know what would that
1:01:15
take what would you want um you know in terms of learning
1:01:20
more about our our organization or um you know and really just being direct
1:01:27
about that conversation what I’ve learned in the organizations that I’ve served in is there’s often a reluctance
1:01:34
to talk about money in a forthright way with the board and I think I think
1:01:41
that’s we’re not doing our jobs if we’re not having those conversations and that’s not to say that
1:01:48
you know we’re we’re trying to nickel and Di people we trying to eek out every scent you know I think it’s about giving
1:01:56
our board members another Pathway to help the organization um through you know we we
1:02:02
often hear the the the term you know Gifts of talent time and treasure and I
1:02:07
think that’s right and we need to tap the treasure part as well as the talent and the time um and again you know it’s
1:02:16
it’s about what can someone give what is their capacity to give and asking them to make your organization one of their
1:02:23
top philanthropic priorities and the ceiling will be different for everybody so you that’s how I think
1:02:30
about it I think everyone should be giving and I think again the one-on-one conversations um will hopefully reveal
1:02:38
to you with good questions you know whether someone would want to join and
1:02:44
help fundraise for your organization um yes very much agree
1:02:51
thank you um so Anya asks um on this this line can you talk about leveraging
1:02:57
board networks for institutional fundraising I in Foundation relations find this difficult since our studio and
1:03:04
major gift officers staff are board members so I don’t know the details of their networks but I know that board
1:03:09
members could introduce us to new institutional funders list reviews of Foundations have not been successful
1:03:15
with our board members even though we know they have relationships with individuals on those Foundation boards
1:03:20
for example um I’ll also
1:03:25
um this is a great question on you and I’m going to pass it over to Lucy and Chuck to answer it but I also want to um
1:03:31
just raise the topic of corporate giving here too as part of institutional um
1:03:36
funding because um that is one goal of our business Leadership Council is to
1:03:42
raise our um increase our corporate giving um
1:03:47
engagement um all right Lucy Chuck who wants to start with this question how to
1:03:53
increase board engagement um with uh potential institutional
1:04:02
Partners you want me to take a stab please just not to sound like a broken
1:04:09
record but I think it it does come down again to relationships and relationship
1:04:15
mapping um you know Anya I’d love to learn more about you said it hasn’t been list reviews haven’t been
1:04:21
successful um just to help you problem solve a
1:04:29
oh sorry I was muted yeah you were just muted for a second you said problem solve a little
1:04:36
and then we lost your audio oh okay um can you hear me now yes okay um I’d love
1:04:42
to understand what the obstacles have been um you said that list reviews haven’t been successful um it sounds
1:04:49
like the board relationships are really with your CEO and and the CDO um
1:04:57
what were the obstacles you ran into with the list reviews I don’t know if I can unmute
1:05:04
myself I keep getting muted but we can hear you great uh so you know it
1:05:10
providing a list of Foundations isn’t helpful because saying you know poke Brothers Foundation or stain’s Family
1:05:16
Foundation well those are a little bit more specific but MacArthur Foundation you know that doesn’t mean anything to a
1:05:23
board member and I have learned that lesson but but then pulling like the whole list
1:05:28
of who’s on the MacArthur foundation’s board certainly we know that there are
1:05:33
relationships in our board where they know those individuals but doing that
1:05:38
for even five foundations you know 10 to 15 board members at each of those
1:05:45
foundations our our CD doesn’t want to bring that kind of list to our board members uh because it’s too long and
1:05:51
it’s not um you know it’s it’s too time intensive
1:05:57
right so what’s the what’s the better way to get them to to find those connect
1:06:02
connections within their networks I have a thought um is there a
1:06:10
way to tailor like a shorter list like do the Rel the work of the relationship
1:06:16
mapping and then say to exp board member um here’s a list of five people who are
1:06:24
on Boards of foundations for trying to engage what are your relationships like is that an
1:06:31
option yeah but I think that um so I I spent 35 years on the
1:06:39
investment banking side and in the last 20 years full-time working on our own
1:06:44
family Foundation um and uh so I live in you
1:06:50
know I’m kind of constantly on both sides of the table you know fundraising side in a funding side which is you know
1:06:58
is uh useful and informative um and
1:07:03
um and not I’m not so sure about list reviews um I I I I doubt that
1:07:13
um you know uh relationships with board members of
1:07:19
MacArthur does any good the uh MacArthur and and uh you know institutionalized
1:07:27
foundations like MacArthur versus U I’ll just I’ll be blunt what I usually
1:07:34
do don’t I hope I don’t offend anybody uh but I I I call them I call McArthur
1:07:40
Etc dead people’s foundations and I call the uh you know
1:07:46
family foundations and other places including the crowns where there the uh
1:07:51
the sources of the money are still alive those are very different things um and uh but but uh you know the the
1:08:01
the people who are critical on in foundations are the program officers if
1:08:06
they if they are institutionalized to to uh to
1:08:12
uh uh have program officers or uh in our case uh you know it’s basically uh uh
1:08:22
our daughter who works full-time with me and and uh and my wife um and we’ve got
1:08:27
a couple other family members who are not very not very involved so ours is much more personal thing and it’s our
1:08:34
money not not hiring staff Distributing other people’s money
1:08:42
um so it would be in in the in the big institutionalized
1:08:48
foundations U the program officers the key people to get to them and board
1:08:53
members typically won’t be very
1:09:00
you know makes a really important distinction for the the bigger institutionalized foundations it is as
1:09:06
you know the pathway is often through the the program officer um I mean I
1:09:12
think if you’re facing resistance one thing to do building off of Lisa’s idea
1:09:19
is to do some of the relationship mapping on your own and that’s it’s time
1:09:25
but you know if a a a lot of these uh foundations do have their boards on
1:09:31
their websites um and if you first of all I would say start to do some Rel
1:09:37
relationship mapping of your board members um what boards are they on um
1:09:44
and then you can then that’s that’s a very that’s a simpler ask to say you
1:09:50
know Chuck I know that you serve on the US Chicago Board I’m trying to get to this person then Chuck is then
1:09:58
I’m much more directed about my ask um you know I I do think you know we use we
1:10:04
do list re reviews a lot at CPM um but that’s because I hold you
1:10:11
know I I you know I have good relationships with board members and you
1:10:17
know and I I you know I think it’s a useful tool but there are ways where you can be much more surgical I think um if
1:10:25
you’re wanting to be sure that you’re not asking for too much time but it then it would require time on your end to do
1:10:32
that homework ahead of
1:10:38
time thank you um
1:10:43
so sorry I’m scrolling back up to the question I wanted to get to next
1:10:49
um Joshua asks how might any of your recommendations shift for organizations
1:10:55
that are part of a National Organization so the local board is an Advisory Board rather than a governing
1:11:09
board I would I think you know the same principles apply um that hopefully you
1:11:19
know your local Advisory board members who can then be influential to the
1:11:25
national board I know different organizations have different structures and relationships to the national board
1:11:32
um you know I’d want to understand who runs the national board are there any
1:11:39
people from my city my community my region on that national board that I can
1:11:44
get to know um you know again trying to like just find those navigate those Pathways
1:11:52
to influencers both locally and Nation
1:11:57
Al yeah I think of U an example would be Teach for
1:12:03
America uh which is all over the country I don’t even know where they’re headquartered I’m not and I think that’s probably very dispersed these days
1:12:11
in remote working the world but um but Teach for America Chicago maybe
1:12:17
Northwest Indiana or something uh but Teach for America here has a strong uh
1:12:24
local identity and uh and it’s almost like it’s a
1:12:31
standalone I I I don’t have many relationships with
1:12:37
as a funer with organizations that you know are National in scope and they happen to
1:12:44
have a a local other than somebody like TFA which has has has because of its its
1:12:51
local leader the the quality of its local uh board leadership uh uh has been able to really
1:13:01
uh create an identity that’s local um the the kind of the
1:13:08
branches I’ll take the YMCA and EV I live in Evon so Mall YMC and Evon is
1:13:15
part of the YMCA Network I don’t think I’m in that way at all I think I are YMS
1:13:21
yet uh and we’re big back big funders of it uh the
1:13:31
uh take I I don’t Frank as a funer I frankly don’t
1:13:38
have much interest in in things are branches that are not
1:13:44
deeply seated in our communities thank
1:13:50
you um question from Melanie um Melanie says I strug with my Development
1:13:56
Committee in several ways one of which is how to differentiate between major gift work and then in parenthesis
1:14:02
bringing our major gift campaign to a conclusion that’s what she means by Major gift work and our regular
1:14:07
fundraising such as our year end appeal very few take initiative without significant
1:14:13
nudging um what do we think that’s that’s kind
1:14:20
of what I was talking about before that I think they’re you know at at the CAO level they come together right so
1:14:28
that that Lucy has to be worried about the development side as responsible for
1:14:34
development side and membership drives the membership drives are like annual
1:14:39
funds um and they’re very different
1:14:44
animals and I for one am only interested in the development side um and U uh and then there’ll be
1:14:53
other people like at colle is you’ll you’ll find people who are U just went
1:14:59
to this reunion and there’ll be people who have for years you know done work with the the annual fund at the college
1:15:06
that’s a different Beast it’s a more mechanical thing it’s a more large
1:15:11
numbers thing U where the uh uh the development work at the college is a
1:15:18
small number very handmade I said different different
1:15:23
activities Lu see uh I I guess I’m curious um if you’re
1:15:28
willing to come off of mute um I’d love to hear more because typically we do involve board
1:15:36
members more on the development side having said that we’ve started a a thank
1:15:41
you calling program for all of our major donors and we’ve got some folks on our
1:15:46
development team or development committee um you know who are giving at the Lower Side Of The Ledger and they
1:15:55
love making these calls they will just they will just you know call one person
1:16:01
after another happy to leave voicemails it gives them a ton of satisfaction and
1:16:07
it’s work that we need them to do so I think really trying to what we did was try to figure out okay how do we engage
1:16:14
folks because there is a thing in development right where you want Chuck
1:16:19
mentioned the word peers you want people who are giving at similar levels to
1:16:26
to to coexist to have that relationship and to make the asks it’s more powerful
1:16:33
when someone who’s giving around the level that you’re already giving is making the ask and so we’re trying to
1:16:40
find parity as much as we can it’s not always possible um but there are folks
1:16:45
who maybe can’t give $100,000 or $50,000 um but they still want to help
1:16:51
and so you know this was was a way our our sta really figured out you know it’d
1:16:57
be awesome if we in this very digital age when people are getting emails or
1:17:05
you know social media for someone to just get an old-fashioned phone call or
1:17:10
or a voicemail just saying thank you you know and we talk about this you know
1:17:15
Lisa knows and our team a lot which is how can we find meaningful touch points
1:17:20
with our donors when we’re not asking them for money all the time you know how
1:17:26
do we engage them how do we as staff add value and I think that’s you know that’s
1:17:32
something that we’ve tried to do is figure out how do we mobilize our our
1:17:38
board Partners um on the more annual giving or the you know the annual
1:17:44
campaign side of things um and this this thank you calling program has been a wonderful way to do that um you know and
1:17:51
then we save our you know our are other are more um high level donors um you
1:18:01
know to do more of that um you the the the relationship building
1:18:06
work and the bigger ass work one thing I’d mentioned is that
1:18:13
Lucy you’ve talked a lot about uh making the ask and I I generally don’t think of
1:18:20
it that way uh I think of of uh my highest utility is is building the
1:18:27
relation helping to build the relationship and then the if the if there’s a real
1:18:34
relationship the the the so-called Asos becomes a natural extension of the
1:18:39
process uh uh and uh uh so I I as you
1:18:46
know I I really think about it in terms of of uh of the cont you know the the
1:18:53
establishment continuity and nourishment of the relationship uh in that
1:19:01
um that’s that’s key and then the the fundraising just kind of naturally flows
1:19:07
from um the U uh and I think I I think
1:19:15
uh people board members who have some Talent some inclination to be involved
1:19:21
in this work um will uh generally be more com comfortable in that mode the
1:19:28
the other thing I’d say is um I think uh and I know some of the people you’re
1:19:33
talking about Lucy that that uh people calling and thanking people um uh I
1:19:41
think that’s you know particularly effective on the smaller sized donors
1:19:47
but but you know if I get a call from somebody I’ve never heard of before and
1:19:52
thank and thanks me for a donation to CPM it’s kind of odd
1:20:00
me yeah and I think that’s such an important Point Chuck which is to
1:20:05
rightsize your engagement right um you know if someone
1:20:10
is giving your organization $1,000 $5,000 and um they get a call from a a
1:20:17
board member they don’t have a relationship with I think that’s that’s good that’s okay right but if you know
1:20:24
you’ve at a six figure seven figure donor the relationships really start to
1:20:30
matter more yeah all right we have five minutes
1:20:36
um there’s one more question in the chat um that we haven’t gotten to yet um so
1:20:43
last chance for anybody else to put questions in or just raise your hand um I think we we did start to allude to
1:20:50
this a little but I want to put the question out there anyway if you want to share any more thoughts um someone asked asked what are your philosophies on
1:20:56
board give get policies one of my favorite
1:21:03
topics all right Chuck take it away I I hate
1:21:08
them uh I find it um I find it kind of offensive and I
1:21:18
find it um you know um inequitable
1:21:25
um and I just don’t like it uh one board I’m on uh one of those fancy boards that
1:21:31
I mentioned earlier they’ve got such a thing and I object to it uh that uh you
1:21:39
know if if you’re you’re trying to get compos a board that’s representative of
1:21:45
your constituency um that
1:21:51
um um you don’t want to make people feel like SE second class citizens on
1:21:59
the board and on the one hand on the other hand you don’t want to board just populated with Rich folks which tends to
1:22:06
be an unengaged and boring board that doesn’t attract that doesn’t attct people like
1:22:13
me I want to be on a board that’s interesting engaged U diverse all of that and and
1:22:22
the give get thing uh interrupts
1:22:27
that and and the other thing I’d say is that uh you I’ve long believed and I’ve
1:22:34
done reading about this and stuff that you know uh fundraising at most
1:22:39
institutions is highly concentrated dollars are you know very
1:22:45
small number of people give the great bulk of the dollars uh
1:22:51
and you know to to think that the we’re going to move the need on fundraising by
1:22:59
asking you know a u a school superintendent who’s on the
1:23:05
board to give her Gap is kind
1:23:13
of from a tactical perspective it’s my experience has been it’s
1:23:20
been it it’s been very hard successful B uh give gets are very
1:23:28
difficult um to achieve um you know I
1:23:34
think people have control over their own giving and that’s where the one-on-one conversation is really important to
1:23:42
understand you know both their capacity and their inclination to give and setting a a an amount together that
1:23:50
makes sense for them um but you know to Chuck Chuck’s earlier Point not everyone has
1:23:59
the ability or the desire to fund race and I think setting a give get puts
1:24:06
pressure on folks in a way that really diminishes their experience now some people are really
1:24:13
good at it and I for those folks um go for it right but again I would come back
1:24:19
to this notion that for each board member you really want to have a a
1:24:25
personalized individualized understanding of where their talents and their interests are
1:24:33
along with their capacity to give and and chart a path that way and not try to
1:24:38
do a cookie cutter everyone has to give get X dollars a year that also then also
1:24:44
artificially puts a ceiling um on board members who could give more yeah so I
1:24:51
think I think one of the keys here is that you know with with uh some degree of
1:24:58
subtlety but not too much uh that the board members uh need to model giving so
1:25:06
the ones who have the capacity to give have to give uh closer to the capacity
1:25:11
to set the tone um and then you know that’s the way to create a culture of give it you
1:25:19
know and and U Luc and I have talked about a little bit that we were a little
1:25:25
seem to be a little shy at at uh Chicago public media about um you know
1:25:32
indicating levels of giving and so it’s it’s apparent to people of who who’s
1:25:37
doing what what is giving at what levels um
1:25:42
and uh and I don’t view that just as for self-aggrandisement purposes I view it
1:25:49
for modeling purposes so when you’re in a campaign at a
1:25:55
college um you know they’re gift tables and uh and then uh then you know
1:26:03
board meetings and other places that people are are you know seeing how the
1:26:08
gift table is filled in and frequently you will you will uh and and and various
1:26:15
Gifts of major sizes will be celebrated and uh and all of that goes
1:26:22
to this point about uh you know for those on the board who are able to give
1:26:28
at Major donor levels that it uh it it
1:26:33
uh uh helps to create a culture um so I’ll just stop there thank you
1:26:41
okay we are overtime so I’m gonna let everybody get on with their day Chuck and Lucy thank you so much for joining
1:26:47
us and for sharing your wisdom and experiences um everybody else thank you for joining us today um the next
1:26:54
convening of the philanthropy Club will be on July 9th and the topic is Equitable metrics for fundraising
1:26:59
departments which sounds very interesting um so we’ll see you all then
1:27:04
than have a great day you bye bye bye
